Yuri Lowell (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
edgeofjustice) wrote2011-11-10 03:18 pm
edgeofjustice) wrote2011-11-10 03:18 pm
Entry tags:
Question meme
This time it is just for Yuri Lowell.
OH GOSH I LOVE VESPERIA AND PROTAGONISTS!!!! Because Vesperia fucks with protagonism in a couple of different ways, I think.
Yuri is introduced as this sarcastic, unhurried sort of guy who’s observant but kind of shifty. The prevalent attitude of the NPC isn’t that ‘Yuri will save us!” it’s “Oh god Yuri is going to get himself, AND us in trouble AGAIN.” He fucks off to rescue the aqua blastia that was stolen from the lower quarter but he doesn’t actually tell anyone what he’s doing. He makes it look like he’s just being irresponsible and screwing around. Also the Lower Quarter can’t get enough of talking about how great his best friend Flynn is, and what a successful Knight he is, etc etc and Yuri is very obviously bitter about it.
So basically we have Yuri Lowell, a failed knight who doesn't like himself and ISN'T very optimistic about the world.
And really, Yuri, despite being a very good party leader in terms of keeping everyone moving puts ALL THE AGENCY on Estelle. it’s always ‘What do you want to do? Where do you want to go?” Now that I think about it, I really don’t think Yuri was ever “Hey, let’s go there because I want to/I think it's a good idea!” He does the same thing with Karol, when he forms their guild. He makes it very explicit that KAROL is the boss. He bucks at the yoke of protagonism (“I never asked for this!”) ONCE, and his restlessness is alluded to only twice more, BARELY (”it must be hard looking after everyone else” and “You should pull yourself together before everyone starts to worry.”)
When he takes agency (being a vigilante) he does it alone. He is very firm and unwavering in his decisions but he always keeps sense of moral weight. It’s ‘easy’ in the sense that his decisions are sure, but it’s hard in the sense that he doesn’t have the conviction to write something off as a ‘right’ decision. Rather, he always looks confident because he’s aware of weight of his decisions at all times; he is constantly paying attention to morality and he's not afriad to be on the other side of it. But there’s also a line of brutality that goes through him. Aviy and I were chatting about this the other day, about how Tales can be really selectively kind of horrific: Yuri kills someone by letting them drown in a sandpit. And then he just flips a switch and acts completely normal.
So this is where it all ties together: YURI IS A CONCEALER. He DOES have a lot of feelings, very strong feelings, even but he constantly keeps himself in check. He denies his own importance as an agent, so of course he denies his feelings have any relevance. They only slip out through the cracks when he is RAGINGLY pissed off. Yuri, rather than take charge as the protagonist, he teases out the autonomy of Estelle and Karol, and gives them room to make decisions.
Of course, party structure is also waaay different. Outside of Karol and Estelle (who are coincidentally the morally upright characters) Vesperia party is made up of SUPER independent people who DON'T look to each other for emotional support. Even when everyone goes after Yuri and punches some sense into him, it's more playful and joking, more violence than talking. We are a party who does not like talking about feelings, and more supportive in the sense of "I'll DO whatever I can for you" rather than verbal comfort. If ToS is /Party abuses Lloyd, Vesperia is /PARTY ABUSES PARTY.
I super love this skit because it demonstrates the role confusion. Estelle says, ""My ideal man... is someone like the Amber Knight in the Tale of the Jade Planet. In the Tale of the Jade Planet he's a good friend of the main character--" IT MENTIONS KNIGHT so it is automatically analogous to The Yuri-Flynn-Estelle relationship, but you DON'T KNOW who the main character. Is it Flynn, the real knight? Or is it Yuri, the knight at heart (he does get a "True Knight" costume).
Brief mention it makes me laugh that we have Yuri the not-protagonist and Duke the non-antagonist...
So yes. Yuri is a protagonist who doesn’t really want to be a protagonist and who probably SHOULDN’T be a protagonist given how his protagonism manifests (always through violence). Nobody has to tell him that, however, because to a lot of ways he is VERY aware which... makes him a pretty killer protag.
How does Lloyd respond to tsun?
Yuri is introduced as this sarcastic, unhurried sort of guy who’s observant but kind of shifty. The prevalent attitude of the NPC isn’t that ‘Yuri will save us!” it’s “Oh god Yuri is going to get himself, AND us in trouble AGAIN.” He fucks off to rescue the aqua blastia that was stolen from the lower quarter but he doesn’t actually tell anyone what he’s doing. He makes it look like he’s just being irresponsible and screwing around. Also the Lower Quarter can’t get enough of talking about how great his best friend Flynn is, and what a successful Knight he is, etc etc and Yuri is very obviously bitter about it.
So basically we have Yuri Lowell, a failed knight who doesn't like himself and ISN'T very optimistic about the world.
And really, Yuri, despite being a very good party leader in terms of keeping everyone moving puts ALL THE AGENCY on Estelle. it’s always ‘What do you want to do? Where do you want to go?” Now that I think about it, I really don’t think Yuri was ever “Hey, let’s go there because I want to/I think it's a good idea!” He does the same thing with Karol, when he forms their guild. He makes it very explicit that KAROL is the boss. He bucks at the yoke of protagonism (“I never asked for this!”) ONCE, and his restlessness is alluded to only twice more, BARELY (”it must be hard looking after everyone else” and “You should pull yourself together before everyone starts to worry.”)
When he takes agency (being a vigilante) he does it alone. He is very firm and unwavering in his decisions but he always keeps sense of moral weight. It’s ‘easy’ in the sense that his decisions are sure, but it’s hard in the sense that he doesn’t have the conviction to write something off as a ‘right’ decision. Rather, he always looks confident because he’s aware of weight of his decisions at all times; he is constantly paying attention to morality and he's not afriad to be on the other side of it. But there’s also a line of brutality that goes through him. Aviy and I were chatting about this the other day, about how Tales can be really selectively kind of horrific: Yuri kills someone by letting them drown in a sandpit. And then he just flips a switch and acts completely normal.
So this is where it all ties together: YURI IS A CONCEALER. He DOES have a lot of feelings, very strong feelings, even but he constantly keeps himself in check. He denies his own importance as an agent, so of course he denies his feelings have any relevance. They only slip out through the cracks when he is RAGINGLY pissed off. Yuri, rather than take charge as the protagonist, he teases out the autonomy of Estelle and Karol, and gives them room to make decisions.
Of course, party structure is also waaay different. Outside of Karol and Estelle (who are coincidentally the morally upright characters) Vesperia party is made up of SUPER independent people who DON'T look to each other for emotional support. Even when everyone goes after Yuri and punches some sense into him, it's more playful and joking, more violence than talking. We are a party who does not like talking about feelings, and more supportive in the sense of "I'll DO whatever I can for you" rather than verbal comfort. If ToS is /Party abuses Lloyd, Vesperia is /PARTY ABUSES PARTY.
I super love this skit because it demonstrates the role confusion. Estelle says, ""My ideal man... is someone like the Amber Knight in the Tale of the Jade Planet. In the Tale of the Jade Planet he's a good friend of the main character--" IT MENTIONS KNIGHT so it is automatically analogous to The Yuri-Flynn-Estelle relationship, but you DON'T KNOW who the main character. Is it Flynn, the real knight? Or is it Yuri, the knight at heart (he does get a "True Knight" costume).
Brief mention it makes me laugh that we have Yuri the not-protagonist and Duke the non-antagonist...
So yes. Yuri is a protagonist who doesn’t really want to be a protagonist and who probably SHOULDN’T be a protagonist given how his protagonism manifests (always through violence). Nobody has to tell him that, however, because to a lot of ways he is VERY aware which... makes him a pretty killer protag.
How does Lloyd respond to tsun?
Gooshhh I love the way moral weight and how different characters deal with it is handled in Tales games. When I think about it, the thing that stands out about Luke, Lloyd, and Yuri alike is that they all unflinchingly accept moral responsibility for their actions — but they're all such different characters. So Luke shoulders it by denying his own worth in response, Lloyd isn't wired that way but goes the direction of TURNING IT ALL INTO DRIVE so he can make up for his mistakes, and Yuri uses it to judge when he thinks a bad guy is necessary. But they all take responsibility even with such different approaches! SO INTERESTING.
Lloyd mostly tsuns back or ignores tsun :|a it doesn't deeply phase him. The majority of his party is some degree tsundere for him so he eats tsun for breakfast for the most part.
would you be up for a non-sexy knight sleepover, Yuri Lowell
Lloyd mostly tsuns back or ignores tsun :|a it doesn't deeply phase him. The majority of his party is some degree tsundere for him so he eats tsun for breakfast for the most part.
would you be up for a non-sexy knight sleepover, Yuri Lowell
HAHA I was gonna ask you the same thing.
I will preface this by saying that Yuri pays a LOT of attention to morality. He can tell the difference between someone being immoral and someone just being completely on a different page, and Yuri canonically NEVER pushes his morality on people. So he is content to exist in this space with Slick that is like, Well, I recognize you have a different morality, and that's fine--as long as you keep out out of my face and off my things. Yuri does not kid himself that he can fix every problem.
But mostly... he is pretty fond of Slick for Slick's sake (I TYPOED THAT AS "SACK"). It is cool to bond with someone has has lived rough, like he has. It is also really cool to get laid, and Slick handled that EXACTLY right--not too forceful, not too much teasing, and a surprising amount of warm affection. It really has been a while for Yuri and considering he just got done saving the world and EVERYONE HE LOVES IS DEAD he was. Kind of really fucking stressed out. And he still is, but Slick is just in general a really nice distraction.
He also gets the sense that Slick really has been around the block a few times, so Yuri thinks he is pretty dependable and reasonable.
Do meee.
Reverse!
I will preface this by saying that Yuri pays a LOT of attention to morality. He can tell the difference between someone being immoral and someone just being completely on a different page, and Yuri canonically NEVER pushes his morality on people. So he is content to exist in this space with Slick that is like, Well, I recognize you have a different morality, and that's fine--as long as you keep out out of my face and off my things. Yuri does not kid himself that he can fix every problem.
But mostly... he is pretty fond of Slick for Slick's sake (I TYPOED THAT AS "SACK"). It is cool to bond with someone has has lived rough, like he has. It is also really cool to get laid, and Slick handled that EXACTLY right--not too forceful, not too much teasing, and a surprising amount of warm affection. It really has been a while for Yuri and considering he just got done saving the world and EVERYONE HE LOVES IS DEAD he was. Kind of really fucking stressed out. And he still is, but Slick is just in general a really nice distraction.
He also gets the sense that Slick really has been around the block a few times, so Yuri thinks he is pretty dependable and reasonable.
Do meee.
Reverse!
Uh, no. Yuri is done talking about feelings forever. He tried to talk about feelings with Raven and look how THAT turned out. Vincent and he have gotten along just fine by talking via sex, so he isn't gonna fix what ain't broke. He loves where he and Vincent are at right now so he is content to curl up and let them proceed as normal.
When Vincent told Gil he loved Yuri I had this moment of "... Would Yuri use this opportunity to say he loves Vincent, too...?"
"No, fuck no. No no no no."
Maybe their relationship model in unhealthy, but it definitely works for them, as far as Yuri's concerned. They've gotten this far without pushing.
OH, THE TORTURE.
Yuri has been telling himself and other people for a while that he can handle Vincent--this was the real test. They've been skirting around the issue of Vincent's thing with torture/violence and he knew that if he and Vincent were going to BE, it would need to be addressed. He really didn't do it out of altruism (except in the sense that he ALWAYS wants to be there for Vincent); he did it because he needed to know if he could handle Vincent at his worst.
The conclusion was... yeah, I can take this. Throughout that whole session he never lost the sense that it was still just him and Vincent. There was that banter and intimacy and that sense of 'space' Yuri has cultivated with Vincent where they can just COMPLETELY lose their shit and then shrug it off and flip the switch back to normal.
Talk to me about Vincent and misogyny~ Could he ever really fall in love with a woman? WHAT IF YURI WAS GENSWAPPED FOREVEEEER.
Also reverse
When Vincent told Gil he loved Yuri I had this moment of "... Would Yuri use this opportunity to say he loves Vincent, too...?"
"No, fuck no. No no no no."
Maybe their relationship model in unhealthy, but it definitely works for them, as far as Yuri's concerned. They've gotten this far without pushing.
OH, THE TORTURE.
Yuri has been telling himself and other people for a while that he can handle Vincent--this was the real test. They've been skirting around the issue of Vincent's thing with torture/violence and he knew that if he and Vincent were going to BE, it would need to be addressed. He really didn't do it out of altruism (except in the sense that he ALWAYS wants to be there for Vincent); he did it because he needed to know if he could handle Vincent at his worst.
The conclusion was... yeah, I can take this. Throughout that whole session he never lost the sense that it was still just him and Vincent. There was that banter and intimacy and that sense of 'space' Yuri has cultivated with Vincent where they can just COMPLETELY lose their shit and then shrug it off and flip the switch back to normal.
Talk to me about Vincent and misogyny~ Could he ever really fall in love with a woman? WHAT IF YURI WAS GENSWAPPED FOREVEEEER.
Also reverse
TO MY SURPRISE, Slick is actually pretty...happy. in igura. FOR HIM. When he got out of Sabra he was pretty depressed and broke down, but uh, the murdercave does that. And the impending death of everyone you love does that. NOW THAT HE IS ACTUALLY DEAD HE KIND OF DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO WORRY ABOUT? So yes, he is in a pretty good mood overall which means he is bonding toward people a lot faster than I thought he would.
AS SUCH, Yuri is his new favorite thing, Slick is pretty genuinely fond of him. He has such a dere spot for heroic types, but particularly ones like Yuri who are not blind to reality, but just see it for the balls it is and decide to do the right thing anyway. HITS HIM IN HIS DERE FOR ALLEN WALKER place. Or his... 'I could have made that choice but I was too weak to' place. As much as he teases he genuinely respects it. Also he has no small amount of... hm, not self hatred. But self deprecation? Realization of his own lack of worth? So really if Yuri ever decides to try to kill him Slick will totes understand, and that's why he can pretty easily switch to molesting Yuri.
SEX IS JUST... sex. The affection was genuine. Even being crazy, Slick is pretty good at dere (because dere = pleasure and pleasure = how he rolls) and he feels it just as easily as most things. And betwee all of the sex with Allen and Yama he kind of... forgot that sex usually isn't affectionate for him WHOOPS.
And he will totally show up for more because NOW THAT HE CAN'T KILL PEOPLE sex is on the top of the list of fun things he wants to do all the time. (Yuri is really lucky Slick stopped after just twice....)
SO BASICALLY LOLO PRETTY HERO i guess i will bond with him and maybe one day we kill each other but whatevwhatev
OKAY YURI ON KIDA...? or is too early for that.
AS SUCH, Yuri is his new favorite thing, Slick is pretty genuinely fond of him. He has such a dere spot for heroic types, but particularly ones like Yuri who are not blind to reality, but just see it for the balls it is and decide to do the right thing anyway. HITS HIM IN HIS DERE FOR ALLEN WALKER place. Or his... 'I could have made that choice but I was too weak to' place. As much as he teases he genuinely respects it. Also he has no small amount of... hm, not self hatred. But self deprecation? Realization of his own lack of worth? So really if Yuri ever decides to try to kill him Slick will totes understand, and that's why he can pretty easily switch to molesting Yuri.
SEX IS JUST... sex. The affection was genuine. Even being crazy, Slick is pretty good at dere (because dere = pleasure and pleasure = how he rolls) and he feels it just as easily as most things. And betwee all of the sex with Allen and Yama he kind of... forgot that sex usually isn't affectionate for him WHOOPS.
And he will totally show up for more because NOW THAT HE CAN'T KILL PEOPLE sex is on the top of the list of fun things he wants to do all the time. (Yuri is really lucky Slick stopped after just twice....)
SO BASICALLY LOLO PRETTY HERO i guess i will bond with him and maybe one day we kill each other but whatevwhatev
OKAY YURI ON KIDA...? or is too early for that.
First of all, he doesn't have a very positive outlook on women! He is definitely sexist and, considering his time period, misogyny can run hand-in-hand. Though, Mochizuki does make a strong effort to put women in commanding roles. Still, whatever the case, he doesn't hold them in high regard within canon! He harbors a strong hatred for his mother for abandoning him and Gil as well as not manning up to kill him. Then, he also despises Alice for being the reason why his idyllic time with Jack drew to a close. Vincent carries his grudges, too! He still can't disassociate the image of his mother with his view of women, and he cuts up rabbit dolls to this day. Not only that, women are flighty and vapid creatures that are only obsessed with looks and rank. It doesn't take anything more than a night in their bed to have them wound around his finger. The same goes even for ladies who aren't of nobility! Zwei/Noise is easily brought around to Vincent with a few kind gestures and words; she doesn't even require sex, just the promise of love. For those playing at home, Vincent has only had positive male influences, that is Gil, Jack, and apparently Elliot. So, women really are a non-entity to Vincent.
Oh, let me toss in Miranda as well. In hindsight, Vincent definitely has realized that she used him. While he may have played his part in the tragedy, she gave him the push he needed. I wouldn't be surprised if he bears a fair share of resentment towards her while being yet another reason why Vincent does not like women. Funnily enough, Vincent has a strong fear association with her rather than hate. If anything else came up in canon about her, it could probably be a good cross reference for his interactions with Beatrice . . . But I'm not really holding out any hope for that.
Anyway, you can take all of that with a grain of salt, considering Vincent doesn't really hold anyone in especially high regard. He looks down on everyone, but he is more quicker to write a girl off than a guy. Like always, Aather has put its own spin on it, but the sentiment remains in some form. Mostly, Vincent doesn't pay attention to girls, in that he is quicker to resort to auto-piloting with them. He is also quick to use them in a game as he views them as easily bent to his needs.
Could Vincent fall in love with a woman . . . That's really asking a lot. The fact is that Vincent doesn't particularly do love with much of anyone. He does have a fondness for Ariel, doesn't mind playing kind, older uncle to Yayoi, and so on . . . But he doesn't reveal much of himself with them, nor is he likely to be honest with his reactions. Vincent always guards his behavior with everyone, and he is much less likely to expose them with a girl. So, I would probably say it is already impossible for him to fall in love, much less with a woman.
If Yuri were genswapped forever, Vincent wouldn't mind too much. At this stage of the game, it would suit his purposes neatly to have a good barrier between him and Yuri, so he could just auto-pilot. It would definitely be an interesting advantage for him. Of course, the downsides could run deep and wide, but that would be . . . Dealt with in time. The overall verdict is . . . Hmm, Vincent would subtly distance, Yuri would or would not notice, and they could potentially split on that. Vincent really wouldn't want to get down to the bottom of that particular mess, like they sort of did with the sex issue.
OH WORDS. So, ignoring is the order of the day, good to know. Talk to me about what Yuri thinks about Gilbert and his relationship with Vincent now.
Re: That reverse.
Vincent will cue off Yuri. So, if he isn't going to talk about it, then neither will Vincent. It keeps affairs really neat and clean, since it doesn't serve his purposes to have this relationship any more entangled than it is.
Also, Yuri somehow got fringe benefits from Vincent sleeping with Gilbert. So, that remains to be hilarious to me.
Vincent will cue off Yuri. So, if he isn't going to talk about it, then neither will Vincent. It keeps affairs really neat and clean, since it doesn't serve his purposes to have this relationship any more entangled than it is.
Also, Yuri somehow got fringe benefits from Vincent sleeping with Gilbert. So, that remains to be hilarious to me.
Y... es. He would be bemused but sure why not.
what would we do at our sleepover Lloyd?
what would we do at our sleepover Lloyd?
Hooo hard question. Yuri is really not a team person. He'd do well on any teams with a lot of young kids, so Kunzite and Turq, and also Ruby. Yuri is very good at playing to 'big brother' role and managing a party without uprooting their autonomy, so he'd be able to sort of look after the kids without seeming like he's was moming them or undermining them.
Emerald would be an interesting fit because Emerald has a lot of adults/emotionally mature people; Yuri would actually be on the younger/more immature side. I'd be interested is seeing how he works in a situation where the onus of responsibility is NOT on him.
Same question for Zack!
Emerald would be an interesting fit because Emerald has a lot of adults/emotionally mature people; Yuri would actually be on the younger/more immature side. I'd be interested is seeing how he works in a situation where the onus of responsibility is NOT on him.
Same question for Zack!
He'd do good on a similar team playing the role of big brother or whatever, but he really isn't . . . made for teams. I think he'd fit pretty good on Tiger's Eye out of all of them, but beyond that, Zack is just. A knight.
Yuri's favorite game?
Yuri's favorite game?
- Sasuke! He's tried to have sex with Chariot in the kitchen like TWICE and both times Sasuke has walked in on them and tried to kill them... Also he's sticking his nose where Yuri doesn't think it belongs where Vincent is concerned.
- Sion is still... well, definitely not in his top ten. He got really pissed at Sion during the Cry Wolf game because he saw Sion as feeding the paranoia that led to like two of his favorite people to be hurt. He doesn't so much dislike him anymore as he is a giant MEH at him.
- WHOEVER IS TRYING TO KILL CHARIOT... He knows it's someone, but not who.
Who are Echo's top 3 favorite?
No. He knows someone is trying to kill Chariot, but he doesn't know who. He only suspects Mukuro inasmuch as he suspects everyone.
Is Mukuro expecting retaliation when/if people find out about him and Chariot?
Is Mukuro expecting retaliation when/if people find out about him and Chariot?
Yuri would 100% be okay and lay off and be totally happy for Raven and would ABSOLUTELY not go out of his way to make his life hard by teasing and whatnot. He'd only get kind of... tsun if Raven started drifting away, but he'd just repress it anyway. It is confusing that Raven keeps asking him what he wants because really, he just wants Raven the same way he's had Raven and he also wants to make Raven happy.
Tell me about Raven's feelings in this current thread.
Tell me about Raven's feelings in this current thread.
THAT'S HARD TO SAY. Probably not kill him. In Aather, Yuri has had a lot of experience with various kinds of moralities, and also he's fucking Vincent Nightray who is a master schemer. He would find out a way to fuck Mukuro up on his own terms or otherwise make it so Mukuro's stalemated.
Tsuna arrives in Aather. What do, Mukuro.
Tsuna arrives in Aather. What do, Mukuro.
Uh.
Avoid Tsuna like woah. He's pretty not sure where to put Tsuna right now, also he knows he lost to Tsuna so. In general just u n s u r e. And there would be the Dera!1 and Tsuna thing which he would just like . . . want to not be reminded of ever.
What teams can you see Hibari on . . .
Avoid Tsuna like woah. He's pretty not sure where to put Tsuna right now, also he knows he lost to Tsuna so. In general just u n s u r e. And there would be the Dera!1 and Tsuna thing which he would just like . . . want to not be reminded of ever.
What teams can you see Hibari on . . .
Well, I'll start with teams I think Hibari definitely should NOT be on: Tiger's Eye, Amethyst, Coral, Citrine, Turq, Sapphire because it would SUPER fuck with their team dynamic as I understand it and Hibari wouldn't get along with... anyone. Teams that have a very strong, systematic sense of 'team' or teams with a lot of young shounens would be baaad because Hibari would just clash with them CONSTANTLY.
Peridot - I can see him clicking with Lucifer, Beatrice, and Cassie fairly easily and from what I understand Peridot is always a little off the map...
Emerald - could potentially work just because I feel the adults on his team would not be impressed with his shenanigans and could handle him easily--plus, Bonten is a birdie. Hibari's not unreasonable, especially as a blank.
Carnelian - is a big question mark, but I think their independent enough that Hibari wouldn't feel crowded, and I believe there's enough screwed up morals on that team to shake right.
Iolite and Kunzite are both big maybes! It would depend largely on first impressions, and how willing each team is to let him be. He would be less teamy with them, but not necessarily in a bad way.
Ruby - ... I guess he would work on Ruby in the sense that, if I'm remembering right, Ruby is a team that already has a lot of team drama...
THERE ARE LOTS OF MAYBES AND "I THINKS". Probably with ANY team I will have to work his memories and skills at least a little bit to make him settle reasonably.
Can I ask the same question back? What teams would you envision Hibari on? IF NOT tell me where you would place Tsuna, Chrome, and Yamamoto.
Peridot - I can see him clicking with Lucifer, Beatrice, and Cassie fairly easily and from what I understand Peridot is always a little off the map...
Emerald - could potentially work just because I feel the adults on his team would not be impressed with his shenanigans and could handle him easily--plus, Bonten is a birdie. Hibari's not unreasonable, especially as a blank.
Carnelian - is a big question mark, but I think their independent enough that Hibari wouldn't feel crowded, and I believe there's enough screwed up morals on that team to shake right.
Iolite and Kunzite are both big maybes! It would depend largely on first impressions, and how willing each team is to let him be. He would be less teamy with them, but not necessarily in a bad way.
Ruby - ... I guess he would work on Ruby in the sense that, if I'm remembering right, Ruby is a team that already has a lot of team drama...
THERE ARE LOTS OF MAYBES AND "I THINKS". Probably with ANY team I will have to work his memories and skills at least a little bit to make him settle reasonably.
Can I ask the same question back? What teams would you envision Hibari on? IF NOT tell me where you would place Tsuna, Chrome, and Yamamoto.
BUT COULD HIBARI STAND BEING ON MUKURO'S TEAM . . .
Peridot and Carnelian would be the frontrunners, from my POV. Carnelian likes winning and are also pretty individualistic, so it is probably the number 1 right now.
Though usually a spot comes up and we go run through the available apps regardless so who knows.
I WOULD PUT YAMA ON . . . Emerald . . . Tsuna on Peridot for lulz or maybe Citrine . . . A little bit of crazy with a side of team seems to help him out. Uhh gosh Chrome //// one of the pink teams or Tiger's Eye '-'
What castmates from ToV do you want the most and what teams would you put them on?
Peridot and Carnelian would be the frontrunners, from my POV. Carnelian likes winning and are also pretty individualistic, so it is probably the number 1 right now.
Though usually a spot comes up and we go run through the available apps regardless so who knows.
I WOULD PUT YAMA ON . . . Emerald . . . Tsuna on Peridot for lulz or maybe Citrine . . . A little bit of crazy with a side of team seems to help him out. Uhh gosh Chrome //// one of the pink teams or Tiger's Eye '-'
What castmates from ToV do you want the most and what teams would you put them on?
OVERALL HIS FEELINGS IN THAT THREAD WERE REALLY MUCH THE SAME. From Raven's point of view he felt like he was mostly just reiterating things, not saying anything new. Whether Yuri understood it differently or whether how he approaches things will change is a different question of course. But really it was much the same as what he was feeling in the non-drunken party thread. How he will act in the future still depends on the balance between "I can't do this it isn't really what I want" and "fuck it I don't care I want something like this and I will take what I can get" and of course what Yuri does! LIKE IT HAS BEEN. He didn't really feel like anything was... actually resolved there, other than maybe actually communicating to Yuri the depth of his feelings finally.
But the one sort of... major swerve in the conversation was of course Yuri saying "I can't imagine feeling like that." BECAUSE THAT IS KIND OF... irreconcilable. Yuri not really knowing how he feels or not how to express his feelings, but working on it together with him, is one thing! BUT LIKE. Raven is still on some level willing to try to tone it down to a less obsessive level, but he didn't get any impression from Yuri that Yuri was actually interested in... toning it up. And he really can't handle Yuri being genuinely like "I don't really care either way" about it. If he's going to want Yuri as much as he does he wants at least some real desire and effort in return and it kind of sounded like there... wasn't. That. :|a BUT YURI DID AGREE EARLIER THAT THEY COULD WORK ON IT... BUT IS THAT EVEN A GOOD IDEA IF THEY ARE SO FAR APART... WHO KNOWS!! IT'S TIME TO SLEEP OFF HIS AFTERNOON HANGOVER.
TELL ME YURI'S FEELINGS.
But the one sort of... major swerve in the conversation was of course Yuri saying "I can't imagine feeling like that." BECAUSE THAT IS KIND OF... irreconcilable. Yuri not really knowing how he feels or not how to express his feelings, but working on it together with him, is one thing! BUT LIKE. Raven is still on some level willing to try to tone it down to a less obsessive level, but he didn't get any impression from Yuri that Yuri was actually interested in... toning it up. And he really can't handle Yuri being genuinely like "I don't really care either way" about it. If he's going to want Yuri as much as he does he wants at least some real desire and effort in return and it kind of sounded like there... wasn't. That. :|a BUT YURI DID AGREE EARLIER THAT THEY COULD WORK ON IT... BUT IS THAT EVEN A GOOD IDEA IF THEY ARE SO FAR APART... WHO KNOWS!! IT'S TIME TO SLEEP OFF HIS AFTERNOON HANGOVER.
TELL ME YURI'S FEELINGS.
Oh no and then I had more things to say.
To expand more on "take what I can get," another big part of Raven's conflict is that he really does often feel that anything he can get with Yuri is the best that he can get. While he does really want a dedicated romantic and sexual relationship with someone, he has like zero faith in himself to manage that, especially at the moment. So sometimes he's like... okay yes this is not the dedicated relationship I idealize and really want in my heart, but it is sex with someone I care a lot about, and that's a hell of a lot better than anything I managed before, whatever the downsides. MAYBE I SHOULD JUST ENJOY IT FOR WHATEVER IT IS LIKE EVERYONE KEEPS TELLING ME?
That is another thing that makes him feel like the feelings in their relationship are really uneven, though, because obviously that is not a concern for Yuri! Yuri has stated that plus or minus sex with Raven makes no difference to him, whereas for Raven it is functionally the difference between the best thing he's had ever and nothing. Add that to the romantic feelings or lack thereof on each of their parts and you get why he reacted so negatively to Yuri suggesting they could be on equal footing.
And that imbalance of feelings makes him feel really vulnerable. Although again I don't think that would really bother him as much if he felt like Yuri was... taking advantage of the vulnerability? To make his feelings into a terrible sex analogy, it is like he has stripped and laid himself out naked and wanting for Yuri, and Yuri is just sort of strolling by casually going "sure, do whatever you want, I don't care either way." The core problem here is not that he's naked and Yuri's not—while potentially awkward and obviously not equal, that could also be the opposite of a problem in the right circumstances. So likewise the problem is not the feelings imbalance being present exactly, it is that Yuri is not being a very attentive top about it. :|a Feelings top. THIS IS CLEARLY THE BEST ANALOGY EVER.
Because yes he loves Yuri a lot and now that they've had sex kind of wants to have sex with him all the time, and so even more than Yuri not returning those feelings he feels like Yuri is not even... appreciating them. Or him. Except when they are actually having sex and he can do things for Yuri, which is pretty much the most amazing feeling ever. And Yuri obviously enjoying himself with him and Yuri saying he wanted to get screwed senseless has reassured him that the desire in the relationship is not completely one-sided. BUT SEX CANNOT BE ALL YURI WANTS, Raven has no clue what he's doing with men and obviously cannot be the best lay ever. So that is why he keeps asking what Yuri wants... because he very much feels like he is in the more vulnerable position in this relationship, and would be pretty much willing to try just giving Yuri whatever he wants from him! Even if that's... camaraderie, occasional mild affection and sex on days that are a multiple of three. Or whatever. Knowing that he could try to settle himself to being happy with that much. But Yuri keeps saying that there's nothing he wants from him. :x Or that he just wants to do what Raven wants. And Raven is like... but what I really want is completely unreasonable to ask someone who doesn't want anything from me. IT MAKES IT HARD TO COMPROMISE.
I really am sorry Raven has so many feelings. But you better reverse me.
To expand more on "take what I can get," another big part of Raven's conflict is that he really does often feel that anything he can get with Yuri is the best that he can get. While he does really want a dedicated romantic and sexual relationship with someone, he has like zero faith in himself to manage that, especially at the moment. So sometimes he's like... okay yes this is not the dedicated relationship I idealize and really want in my heart, but it is sex with someone I care a lot about, and that's a hell of a lot better than anything I managed before, whatever the downsides. MAYBE I SHOULD JUST ENJOY IT FOR WHATEVER IT IS LIKE EVERYONE KEEPS TELLING ME?
That is another thing that makes him feel like the feelings in their relationship are really uneven, though, because obviously that is not a concern for Yuri! Yuri has stated that plus or minus sex with Raven makes no difference to him, whereas for Raven it is functionally the difference between the best thing he's had ever and nothing. Add that to the romantic feelings or lack thereof on each of their parts and you get why he reacted so negatively to Yuri suggesting they could be on equal footing.
And that imbalance of feelings makes him feel really vulnerable. Although again I don't think that would really bother him as much if he felt like Yuri was... taking advantage of the vulnerability? To make his feelings into a terrible sex analogy, it is like he has stripped and laid himself out naked and wanting for Yuri, and Yuri is just sort of strolling by casually going "sure, do whatever you want, I don't care either way." The core problem here is not that he's naked and Yuri's not—while potentially awkward and obviously not equal, that could also be the opposite of a problem in the right circumstances. So likewise the problem is not the feelings imbalance being present exactly, it is that Yuri is not being a very attentive top about it. :|a Feelings top. THIS IS CLEARLY THE BEST ANALOGY EVER.
Because yes he loves Yuri a lot and now that they've had sex kind of wants to have sex with him all the time, and so even more than Yuri not returning those feelings he feels like Yuri is not even... appreciating them. Or him. Except when they are actually having sex and he can do things for Yuri, which is pretty much the most amazing feeling ever. And Yuri obviously enjoying himself with him and Yuri saying he wanted to get screwed senseless has reassured him that the desire in the relationship is not completely one-sided. BUT SEX CANNOT BE ALL YURI WANTS, Raven has no clue what he's doing with men and obviously cannot be the best lay ever. So that is why he keeps asking what Yuri wants... because he very much feels like he is in the more vulnerable position in this relationship, and would be pretty much willing to try just giving Yuri whatever he wants from him! Even if that's... camaraderie, occasional mild affection and sex on days that are a multiple of three. Or whatever. Knowing that he could try to settle himself to being happy with that much. But Yuri keeps saying that there's nothing he wants from him. :x Or that he just wants to do what Raven wants. And Raven is like... but what I really want is completely unreasonable to ask someone who doesn't want anything from me. IT MAKES IT HARD TO COMPROMISE.
I really am sorry Raven has so many feelings. But you better reverse me.
Flynn goes on Sterling UNDENIABLY. He is a knight through and through. He would drive whatever team he was on batshit insane otherwise.
I would also love~ to see Estelle on Sterling because kyaa Estelle grasping her own agency. Barring that I would like to see her on Emerald for something new, or maybe Coral.
Rita on Carnelian, Karol on Tiger's Eye, and Duke on Emerald or Coral.
Yama on Emerald is an interesting choice. TELL ME ABOUT THAT.
I would also love~ to see Estelle on Sterling because kyaa Estelle grasping her own agency. Barring that I would like to see her on Emerald for something new, or maybe Coral.
Rita on Carnelian, Karol on Tiger's Eye, and Duke on Emerald or Coral.
Yama on Emerald is an interesting choice. TELL ME ABOUT THAT.
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